Recently we sent out a communication to our customers with the intent to help them understand the Copyright Modernization Act and TekSavvy’s position on how we view our responsibility to our customers and our legal duties under both copyright and privacy laws. We received a tremendous response to that communication. Many have expressed questions and concerns about it.
We too are concerned.
Last week we received a motion from Voltage Pictures LLC, for customer information associated with a significant number of IP addresses. They advised us that they would be seeking a court order on December 17th.
First, we want you to know that we have not provided any information to Voltage. We would only do so under court order.
Secondly, if you are the subject of their request, earlier today, we sent out notices to those affected. We sent an email to the same address that you would normally receive your invoices from us. Please be sure to check your inbox.
Now, what is it that has us concerned?
We are frankly puzzled by the approach that Voltage has taken. It seems contrary to the government’s intent with copyright reform, which was to discourage file sharing lawsuits against individuals, while still protecting copyright holders’ rights. The manner and the timing of this action also seems unusual given that the government recently created a roadmap for addressing file sharing and copyright infringement within its legislation. Its starting point is a notification system to subscribers to discourage infringement without immediate threats of lawsuits or disclosure of their personal information. That system is not yet finalized though. In light of these factors, Voltage’s actions seem odd to us.
It appears to us that a notice period is essential, especially in cases where large privacy disclosures may be involved. Without this notice, a customer could be the subject of a lawsuit and not even know about it. Surely this is in part why the government is seeking to enact such notice provisions in the policy.
At this point there are many unanswered questions. How does Voltage intend to proceed? How will the courts rule if customers should retain legal counsel? Under what conditions might the court order the disclosure of customer information? If Voltage is successful, how many more notices will Canadian ISPs receive? Is there a limit to what the court will allow?
And likely the biggest question: What liability could a customer face? From all that I’ve read, non-commercial infringement carries a damage award as low as $100 and as high as $5000 for all infringements. It also appears that the intent is to keep damage awards low in such cases. Experts that have written on the topic note that – the law now says that in the case of infringements for non-commercial purposes, there is a need for an award to be proportionate to the infringements, with consideration of the hardship the award may cause to the defendant, whether the infringement was for private purposes or not, and the impact of the infringements on the plaintiff. They go on to point out that – the government provided assurances during the copyright reform process that “Canadians will not face disproportionate penalties for minor infringements of copyright.” Of course, we have no way of knowing what the courts will actually do in specific situations.
TekSavvy wants to protect its customers’ privacy rights and rights to be notified of lawsuits that could affect them. At the same time, we must abide by the legal process. Through all of this you can be sure of our commitment to our customers.
We will:
1) Continue to be as transparent as possible, and inform you when developments happen.
2) Notify you as soon as possible should we receive a request for customer personal information.
3) We will not provide your personal information to any third parties unless required by a court order.
What exactly have we been served with to date?
There are currently two legal documents that are publicly available. Those are the Statement of Claim dated November 14th, which is a general submission to the court outlining the claims against as yet unknown defendants. TekSavvy has not been formally served with this document since we are not a defendant in the case, but we obtained a copy from the Court as we were interested in it and felt that you might be too. The second is a Notice of Motion which serves as TekSavvy’s notice that some of our customers’ names and contact information are being requested by way of a motion to the Federal Court of Canada so that Voltage can pursue its claims against them. The Notice of Motion was served on us on December 7th. TekSavvy had previously been provided with a file of IP addresses in November. Due to the large number of IPs involved and inaccurate data in the file that had to be clarified with Voltage, it has taken a significant amount of time to get to the point where we could identify the customers affected by the Notice of Motion in order to be able to advise them of the upcoming motion.
To view to Statement of Claim and the Notice of Motion please visit: http://www.teksavvy.com/en/why-teksavvy/in-the-news/teksavvy-customer-notices/legal-documents-for-request-for-customer-information
What makes this case different?
The sheer volume of copyright infringement claims that Voltage is pursuing against individuals at one time is what’s different in this case. The file provided by Voltage contains a couple thousand of IP addresses, which we will not be making public for obvious reasons. This very large volume has posed many challenges for us as we have tried to determine which of our customers could be affected and how to give them notice in the most efficient and timeliest manner possible. It will also likely pose challenges for the court dealing with the claims as it decides of how to deal with both the provision of notice of the claims to potential defendants and the processing of the actual claims of infringement. We are unable to find any similar case of this scale. Consequently, we have retained legal counsel to help us through this process to advise us on our rights and obligations as an ISP, so that we can apply our own judgement to the situation in an appropriate manner. This case may well help determine how other such future cases are handled.
If you are targeted in one of these actions, we urge you to seek your own legal advice. That is your choice and responsibility. We need you to understand that we are unable to assist you legally.
There are so many unknowns about this that I urge you to become familiar with copyright reform so that you know your rights under the law and you can respond appropriately. Know that TekSavvy is not taking this lightly as it affects us too and as always, we believe that making your voice heard is a key component to a healthy internet in Canada. I will be monitoring this situation very closely. Please visit again as we will continue to post updates as things progress.
There are a lot of questions about this so please visit our FAQ page online for more details. http://www.teksavvy.com/en/why-teksavvy/in-the-news/teksavvy-customer-notices/copyright-law-in-canada/copyright-faqs
Marc – CEO/TekSavvy
Great update. Thanks Marc!
tx, np.
Marc,
Anything I can do to help Tekksavvy and the targeted users with this? I could donate to a fund set up to provide information, jurisprudence and legal advice to those targeted.
Don’t kid yourselves, this is only the first wave. Next time around you may be wrongly targeted for allegedly downloading a pornographic film with a disgusting title. Pay up or we release your name with the details associated with the case in the media.
This is an extorsion setup, pure and simple. We need to send a strong message and send these trolls back through the tunnel with dashed hopes and lots of unexpected legal expenses.
Can you tell us what ‘The Works” they are referring to is?
If you follow the links and look at the Statement of Claim, it’s at the end of the document.
After looked at the list, can not recognize any of their product…..
Is it possible to request which WORKS exactly associated with the IP/Account?
Hi,
Yes, The notices sent out did exactly that.
Marc
Love the transparency and openness. Thanks for keeping us updated and informed. Such a stark contrast to Rogers/Bell.
Thanks Mike.
Voltage Pictures LLC has nothing to do with pictures themselves and are known as torrent trolls.
They try to make money by scaring people into paying with silly lawsuits which should never make it into court.
They try to scary people into paying and even went after Nicolas Chartier. one of the producers of hurt locker for downloading hurt locker.
Now its a safe bet that he wouldn’t have to download the movie he was producing and told them as much and here is the response he got.
From: “Nicolas Chartier”
Date: May 15, 2010 2:30:30 AM PDT
To: [redacted]@[redacted].com
Subject: RE: Hurt Locker lawsuit
Hi Nicholas, please feel free to leave your house open every time you go out and please tell your family to do so, please invite people in the streets to come in and take things from you, not to make money out of it by reselling it but just to use it for themselves and help themselves. If you think it’s normal they take my work for free, I’m sure you will give away all your furniture and possessions and your family will do the same. I can also send you my bank account information since apparently you work for free and your family too so since you have so much money you should give it away… I actually like to pay my employees, my family, my bank for their work and like to get paid for my work. I’m glad you’re a moron who believes stealing is right. I hope your family and your kids end up in jail one day for stealing so maybe they can be taught the difference. Until then, keep being stupid, you’re doing that very well. And please do not download, rent, or pay for my movies, I actually like smart and more important HONEST people to watch my films.
best regards,
Nicolas Chartier
Voltage Pictures, LLC
[address, phone, other personal details redacted]
This gives you a clear idea what they people are like and how the operate.
Remember not one of these lawsuits was ever won when when the big push was on by the RIAA and these idiots are just trying to scare people into making a bad move and paying.
@Eric … don’t be overly sanguine about the threat … there have been three judgements in the US totally $1.5 million each … http://copyrightenforcement.ca/massive-bittorent-penalties/
TMW, Here in Canada that’s not possible. The max (assuming it’s not a commercial infringement) is $5000 in total. i.e. if you have two claims against you, total max is still $5k.
These were before a California judge made judgement that an IP Address ISN’T a person!
Eric, I think you got the names confused. Nicolas Chartier is part of Voltage Pictures, so he can’t be going after himself. Voltage is the production company for Hurt Locker.
Eric, I think you got the names confused. Nicolas Chartier is part of Voltage Pictures, so he can’t be going after himself. Voltage is the production company for Hurt Locker.
Not everyone is as informed as we are when it comes to issue of privacy and copyright so +1 to you Marc for writing about and sending out that initial email to everyone…The notification emails when a subscribers personal information is request is vital, and is just another thing that puts you guys ahead of Rogers/Bell.
On the legal front, I don’t know their intentions because I don’t work for them, but 9 times out of 10 they drop the case if they actually have to take it to court because the service provider is not fully cooperating (which to them means giving out personal information to them on command with no judicial oversight).
Again … don’t be too sanguine about this … the courts have clearly indicated that they will order contact information released ( http://bit.ly/UWQIol ) … while Mike is correct, this case differs from previous ones, the outcomes are in no way certain.
I would like to point out that your grounds for motion, and any evidence you present, will be easily contested. (Everyone knows you’re one of the copyright trolls involved in this case.)
1. “Once a packet is downloaded by a peer, that peer automatically becomes a download source for other peers connected to the Bit Torrent network who are requesting the file. Unless the settings on the user’s BitTorrent program are changed, every user who is copying or who has copied a file is simultaneously distributing it to every other user or peer connected to the BitTorrent network. This allows even small computers with low bandwidth to participate in large data transfers across a P2P network;”
A. A packet is NOT a file. A torrent is made up of slices, the payload of these slices are between 256-2048KBs of data, depending on the torrents source configuration upon the time of creation. When all these slices are put together, only then do you have a complete file.
2. “The forensic software searched BitTorrent networks for files corresponding to the Works and identified the IP address of each seeder or peer who was offering any of these files for transfer or distribution. This information is available to anyone that is connected to the P2P network;”
A. A peer is different than a seeder. A peer doesn’t have the complete file, only parts of it.
3. “Canipre analyzed each of the BitTorrent packets distributed by the IP addresses contained in File Data and verified that reassembling the pieces results in a fully playable digital motion picture that is one of the Works. Canipre verified this by viewing a control copy of each of the Works side by side with the digital media files being distributed on the P2P network and confirming that they were the same;”
A. While this is possible, it is HIGHLY unlikely. I would like to see the evidence to back this up. There is almost no way a single peer will download every 256KB-2048KB slice from a single source, unless there is only one seeder and one peer downloading from them. Show me the evidence where you analyzed each of the BitTorrent packets distributed from an IP, I’m sure I’ll get a good laugh. There is no way you can prove every slice came from that single IP.
4. “ISP’s track the IP addresses assigned to their customers at any given time and retain “user logs” of that information. Once provided with the IP address and the corresponding File Data, ISPs can review their user logs to identify the contact information of their clients who acted as peers to copy and distribute unauthorized versions of the Works. Only an ISP can correlate the IP address to the real identity of its subscriber;”
A. Once again, a peer isn’t a seeder. That peer didn’t copy anything, nor did they redistribute the entire work.
You should also know that Teksavvy’s TPIA customers are subject to Rogers’ strict 30kb/s throttling on all p2p uploads. Do you have proof that you sat there for over eight hours downloading every slice from that one Teksavvy cable customer?
Good thing and IP Address is linked to a MACHINE not a person!, This has already been stated in court and and most judges review past judgements and follow the same direction. (Source: http://www.itworld.com/internet/277572/courts-quash-copyright-trolls-recognize-ip-address-not-person, Another one. http://torrentfreak.com/ip-address-cant-even-identify-a-state-bittorrent-judge-rules-120515/)
Thanks for keeping us in the loop. Much appreciated.
You’re welcome Chris.
Is Teksavvy even required to save and provide that information (re: customers and IPs) prior to the new motion becoming law?
I thought the law wasn’t retroactive?! I didn’t think anyone could go after “infringers” before the law came into effect since it wasn’t technically against the law before that date.
Oh well, I’m sincerely hoping our justice system rejects Voltage’s requests and kicks this shit out of court.
I’m not a lawyer of a Copyright law expert but my understanding is that the Copyright laws have been in place for years. Only recent changes are now enacted.. the limits in liability to a max of $5k I think are an example of this. Please inform yourselves though, more dialogue is needed.
Thanks Mark for being open about this whole thing. Since you’re contacting those affected anyways, you should use this as an opportunity to criticize their taste in movies… have you SEEN what abominations this company is responsible for?
Haha, well. Unfortunately, I can’t really comment on much at this point. You do raise a valid point though it would seem to me. What exactly it means though, I don’t know.
What a crazy situation.. Every time I read an article like this, I am glad I made the switch to TekSavvy, a company that actually cares about its customers, not just their money.
Thanks for the support Ryan. Glad to have you aboard!
Quick search on Google – seems these guys are well known as ISP Trolls, with a pretty bad reputation. Not sure, but some of the articles seemed to indicate they file a significant number of frivolous lawsuits hoping some will stick.
How many TekSavvy customers are involved?
+1 To TekSavvy for informing its users on how to defend themselves against these types of situations and people! So glad I moved from ROBERS, now if only TekSavvy had a homephone line and cable TV.
We strive to be transparent! Glad you like that
We have TekTalk (VoIP) if your interested…
Thanks,
Andre
+1 To TekSavvy for informing its users on how to defend themselves against these types of situations and people! So glad I moved from ROBERS, now if only TekSavvy had a home-phone line and cable TV.
I feel like suing Voltage for the time I just wasted scrolling though their titles. It seem this B studio produces crap for people that are easily entertained and bullied. If they accuse you, say and pay nothing. Talk to a lawyer and make them prove it.
This is why I go with teksavvy, the nice price and service, and now the open forum which they keep us inforumed…Way to go guys!(gals)
Thanks! Glad you like it
Cheers,
Andre
Marc, I posed these related questions on Teksavvy’s forum on December 4th, but no reply yet:
-How long does TSI store data on its subscribers’ Internet usage?
-How long are logs of IP addresses kept?
Would be great if these were stated explicitly in your terms of use or privacy policies.
Many thanks – keep up the good work!
thanks for the question.
We keep logs for 90 days. We have also included that in our FAQ.
We’ll be discussing the retention of the logs more though, it’s an important subject.
You reminded me of a retention policy discussion from a number of years back, when I was at a library-software company.
Libraries are always getting requests from governments or police forces wanting to know “what books has person X read”. Librarians are very reluctant to release that kind of information, and therefor arrange to keep that information only until the patron returns the book, or pays for it if lost or damaged.
This was enforced in our circulation software, which only keeps statistical information on how many books circulated, not what they are or by who they were borrowed.
When I was there, we also used dhcp, and were amused to find the particular version we had only kept a “last IP assigned to this MAC” cache, and had to have logging specifically turned on in order to see what IPs a particular MAC address had used. The dhcp author had been a former colleague, and understood the problem!
This may be a “best practice” that ISPs want to adopt.
If I wasn’t already a long time customer, I certainly am now. We will never see these kinds of updates from other ISPs, Teksavvy is #1!
As an aside, that list of pictures is not worth buying, renting, or downloading.
I dont get this… people are guilty via an IP? So if I go to Tim Hortons and download a movie are some other copyright material, does that mean that Tim Hortons is liable to legal action against them?
Or the poor neighbour that leaves his wifi open, he is responsible for people donwloading movies on his open wifi?
I dont get it, can someone explain the guilty side of these lawsuits, is there any other proof besides an IP accessing a site or torrent thing?
To anyone who gets a notice from TSI I strongly suggest you get a lawyer’s input ASAP. Odds are the judge is going to order TSI to hand over the data and they will then start their extortion scheme. The worst thing you can do is ignore it or try and fight it yourself alone. That is exactly what they want you to do, what will drive them off is if your only response comes from your lawyer’s letterhead saying, essentially, “We will see you in court.” They don’t want to go to court and will most likely leave you be if they know you’re prepared to do so.
If everyone who gets a letter from these scum-sucking piles of greed and dumb fights back they will go away and get back to making crappy movies that no one with taste would pay for anyway.
What happens to the people that are falsely accused of copyright infringement?
in cases like this you are guilty and have to prove your innocence. they claim to have something on you, if your ip was part of the pool.
i always thought it was the other way around. innocent unless proven guilty? if not cant everyone just accuse someone and let them do all the work of trying to prove themselves innocent? in this case wouldn’t they have to prove to the court that the ip was linked directly to the person accused? i mean they are the ones asking for money :/
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I hope that every single person accused in this lawsuit files a statement of defence and brings this matter to court. Ideally, for the public good, it should be extremely expensive for these copyright trolls to finance their litigation. This would also discourage the courts from allowing such lawsuits to proceed, because they have severely limited benefit for the public (in the case of private use piracy), and they cost the justice system an arm and a leg to process.
The question is whether the balance of probabilities proves the defendants were committing piracy. With a router and multiple users, it would seem to be very difficult to prove who committed the unlawful copying.
Thanks Marc, I’m glad to see TekSavvy is this transparent with their customers.
Does Voltage have to reimburse TekSavvy (or other ISPs) for their time reconciling the data? Seems like a huge waste of time for TekSavvy, when really this isn’t their problem.
Until there is reasonable access to this “copyrighted” material, I don’t see how these lawsuits can be entertained. The movie/music/etc industry needs to wake up and realize that the old distribution models no longer work. I’m never going to spend $20-30 for a Blu-ray, $15 for a CD, or $30+ for a season of a TV show. Never. The existing digital distribution systems available in Canada are garbage because of the CRTC and other copyright/licensing issues.
Spotify, for instance, is not currently available in Canada. Luckily, the location restrictions are simple to circumvent. Of all the (legal) streaming music services I have tried, this is the best as the catalog suits my needs. Netflix is available in Canada, but has much less content than its US counterpart. Again, these location restrictions are easily circumvented, but why should I need to do this? These are just 2 examples, but there are many more. Even if these types of services were implemented in Canada over the next couple years, the number of up and coming services will subdivide the media. I just read today that Trent Reznor and Dr. Dre plan to release Spotify competitor, “Daisy”. If Dr. Dre’s album “Detox” is ever released, you can bet it will be “Exclusive to Daisy” or something crazy. I’m not looking to have everything for free, but I want reasonable access for fair prices. Sorry Dr. Dre, you might not be a billionaire any time soon.
These are just a few of the many pains that Canadian consumers have to put up with. We had to battle Usage Base Billing, but now we are going to be subject to lawsuits. Don’t get me wrong, I’m glad the Canadian Government imposed caps for these lawsuits, but I think these laws still do not have the “99%” in mind. Why sue individuals when you can get to the root of the problem, distributors of copyrighted material? Because the distributors will fight back, which is exactly what the Canadian public needs to do.
For the U.S. experience, see http://fightcopyrighttrolls.com/2012/07/04/judge-wright-is-so-right-copyright-trolling-is-essentially-an-extortion-scheme/
Thank you for notifying us, that alone is above and beyond most of the competition!
Can I ask, what is the retention period for the appropriate logs? That is to say, how long does Teksavvy keep assigned IP to customer name/account information?
Hi Joel, thanks for the support.
We currently keep the logs for 90 days. We will be discussing this further though as it’s an important part to this.
If you look at the FAQ we prepared it’s also in there.
Hey Marc. I’ve been wanting to email you guys as a company for awhile, but figured since you are actively reading this and it’s a public forum, it would be better for everyone to post it here. Just wanted to say thanks. I know I echo a lot of users when I say it, and you’ve probably heard it a million times, but I’m going to say it anyway. I feel the need because it’s not something I do on a regular basis for/to a company. I joined a couple of years ago, and not only have I always found the customer service to be second to none – people always friendly and helpful on the phone, reps always understanding, kind and genuine – the service itself is dynamite. I sing the praises of the company any time someone asks me who I’m with, what my download cap is, etc. Add to this the fact that we can actively involve the other two major providers in stickin’ it to, well, themselves while helping feed what is in many ways a grassroots movement to have internet on par with the rest of the world – and I’m sold. What put it over the edge and urged me to actually write this though was seeing your involvement in the community here. I will continue to spread the news and wake up as many people as I can to the “beyond the call of duty” level of service that is Teksavvy. Thanks for running things the way you guys do. There’s a lot of refreshed and appreciative people out there, who are happy to pay their bill every month. I see it as a donation to a great cause as much as remuneration for services rendered.
Happy Holidays and thanks again for a great couple of years.
-Marcus
Marcus, thank you. It’s great to hear! The staff are always watching too so helps reinforce that we’re on the right path.
Happy holidays.
Marc
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A list of movies never to see:
http://www.imdb.com/company/co0179337/?ref_=fn_al_co_1
Do not pay for them. Do not watch them at a friend’s house. Do not discuss them. Don’t download them. Simply do nothing to patronize these movies. The more people who actively ignore the existence of Voltage Pictures’ branded media, the sooner they will reap the rewards of this bizarre negative marketing scheme.
Once people realize that Voltage Pictures is poison to anything they touch, Voltage will be out of business.
Maybe a log purge on the 16th is in order. Hard drives do crash.
someone needs to setup a donation site, so they can start a defense fund, maybe teksavy would be willing to pursue a motion of discovery the same as verizon is doing right now,
https://torrentfreak.com/verizon-determined-to-expose-bittorrent-copyright-trolls-121211/
Indeed, “Robin Berry’s” company needs to be scrutinized to the fullest extent, so does Barry Logan’s testimony. Various Motions must be filed to find out how their “LaGuarda Observer v1.2″ software tracks and collects data, whether mistakes or inconsistencies are present, the list goes on.
Be prepared Voltage, NO ONE will give in to your extortionate demands, be prepared to fight every case in court if it does come to that! Be prepared to have numerous Motions and procedural issues filed against you driving up your costs, we all know the most you can get is five thousand dollars, yet each case will end up costing you tens of thousands!
This is a great article. I don’t think it’s fair for the ISP to have to fight for the rights of all its subscribers, but it is nice to see someone stand up to these companies.
The tactics of these so-called “copyright trolls” are pretty clear and although they attempt to stand on a high moral ground, it would appear their morals are far worse than those they are alleging have ‘stolen’ their property.
As one example of this, I would really like to see how they justify a $10 000 fine for the download of a single movie. Not justifying the action of downloading here, just challenging wether the “punishment fits the crime” so to speak. What is the fine or punishment for the theft of a physical DVD?
I understand this was the reason for the changes to Bill C-11, to bring penalties proportional to actual damages, however my question is for Voltage, and how they justify it? To the best of my knowledge, and I am not a lawyer, they cannot.
Hello Marc and teksavvy team…. thank you for all your support and like others have said teksavvy almost has a cult like following ( in a good way
) … as always have received excellent service.
Have all customer been contacted with second set of email regarding possible implications ?
thanks
tx.
yes, all notices have been sent for those identified. there’s no plan to send any further notices for those not yet identified as they are not identified…
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An ISP in California recently announced that they now only save logs for two weeks, to protect customer privacy in cases like these (they determined that two weeks was long enough for legitimate law-enforcement needs in threat-to-life situations). Is TekSavvy considering something similar in the future?
(Story here: http://www.forbes.com/sites/andygreenberg/2012/06/22/ceo-of-internet-provider-sonic-net-we-delete-user-logs-after-two-weeks-your-internet-provider-should-too/3/)
This is a great idea. Keep it for the minimum amount of time that the government requires.
Can these cases be thrown out on the basis that the evidence was collected unlawfully? Canipre collected IP addresses of millions of Canadians without their knowledge and without the consent of the law (i.e. a warrant). Is there a big difference between this and say illegal wiretapping? Canadians assume a measure of privacy when browsing the internet, and the activity of millions of canadaians was tracked by this company. Regardless of their intent this seems to me to be an issue that deserves more attention than it is getting.
Any thoughts on that?
i think the information is freely available, but grey area, can an individual actually track stuff like this, this is when something needs to be done.
they say an ip is not a person? not sure who says this but im reading this allot, then do they scan based on that pretense? if they do, then they accept that an ip is not a person and should not be able to claim one is.
or they accept that an ip is a person and my thoughts are you need some sort of court order in order yo spy or investigate a person ,aka mass people.
i think thats initially what it is a cyber bug that tracks people without initial intent.kind of like a detective monitoring everybody without a detective license and with no actual client telling someone to..
and yes, that brings the question, after day1 of monitoring the file why was it not removed.
why would a file that apparently they claim is infreingement not be removed. to me that is the best measure of ensuring they protect there property is to ensure something like that is not made available
The courts have already ruled, the groundwork was laid in 2005 and precedent set in Sept 2011 by Justice Shore in Montreal. There is very little chance that the courts won’t order as they did then, or again last month (NGN vs Does).
Privacy issues are understandably a concern, but probably doesn’t apply here. … http://copyrightenforcement.ca/bittorrent-privacy-who-can-see-what-im-downloading-and-what-can-they-do-with-it/
Accuracy of information is also a concern. That said the filings will likely ask the litigants to preserve data on their machines. If Voltage has it wrong, if a litigant has never used bittorrent to share one of their properties, they should be able to prove it and request costs. Wiping a hard-drive however, could be seen as a presumption of guilt. I’d be curious to hear a lawyer weigh in on this.
Well, I NEVER USED BITTORENT, NOR HAVE INSTALLED IT. I haven’t heard before, or looked for, or seen, or want to see the movies in that list. I presume my hard disk would preserve traces if such files were downloaded and deleted after. I got the notice though …
i also find it very odd. i read somewhere that even company’s that do this must abide to very strict privacy rules. its very odd that no government official commented on any of these items, considering they pushed this new law,
too bad they don\t step in, especially the mp that said mass suits wont happen. like common back your words and make your party do something or speak again to the media. i remember tony clement, actioning something last year a a few years ago. about the crtc ruling, well this is another example where we need the gov to step back in and say re-cant what the law was intended for, and what it wasn’t and not allow this type of stuff to happen.
I’m sure with the number of customers wanting a better service ie teksavvy that bell,Rogers etc may have a part in this.
It might be hard to prove that you had downloaded this movie if let’s say you had an open wireless system oh ya it’s your ip but could someone have used it? Reasonable doubt ..IMHO
i think you have to prove 51+% reasonable doubt. its not a criminal case, where reasonable doubt will make you innocent. they heard it all and your isp tos says you are responsible for your connection. unlocked router or not.
There’s a U.S. class action suit against similar companies suing putative downloaders, some of whom don’t even know what bittorrent is:
http://www.wired.com/images_blogs/threatlevel/2012/07/pornshakedown.pdf
Circa July 2012…
http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2012/07/porn-studios-screw-fans/
If this case depends on one man’s testimony they should have picked one who is not a music pirate who made money from published music without paying royalties.
Barry Logan (Canipre) has credibility issues. He played in a band called “Whoa! Miss Mojo” at Stratford Ontario’s Ribfest 2011. Cover bands are supposed to pay royalties but guess what? 4 of the pirated songs are posted on YouTube.
Thank you for that information! May I suggest you visit http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r27806773-Blog-Copyright-Infringement-Lawsuit and post any information you have there also. Thanks!
How can they demand information from alleged IPs that downloaded the movie prior to The Copyright Modernization Act being passed Nov 30?
“The Copyright Modernization Act, which was known as Bill C-11 prior to its passing, officially came into effect on November 30.”
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If you read Voltages’s “Statement of Claim”, under section “The Actions of the Defendants”
http://o.canada.com/2012/12/11/file-sharing-lawsuits-might-begin-soon-in-canada/
Voltage states:
“An IP address is a unique numerical identifier assigned to an internet user by that user’s internet service provider. (“ISP”)
This statement is completely false, because an IP address is a unique numerical identifier that is assigned to a network equipped piece of hardware by which other network equipped devices can identify it.
These slime balls are twisting words around to make things sound different than they actually are. Hopefully the courts will see that their claims are based on lies.
The most amazing thing about this is that 2000+ people have even heard of these titles, let alone would use bandwidth to download them, or allocate scarce eyeball time to watch them.
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Is lawyering up really the right solution here? I mean if maximum penalties are $5,000, carrying a lawyer through the process of fighting this you’d easily burn through $5k in no time.
reading pages of stuff like this, i think initial consultation is recommended to get your feet wet and set expectation. apparently the trolls try to bring you for a ride to see if you crack or not. the 5k is the maximum fine i believe you can obtain although its pretty vague if its per infringement, depends on the interpretation of the law, im not a lawyer so i cant tell you, if you need to submit motion of quash or anything then a lawyer can do that, or if you want them the lawyer to receive the calls and try to lower the settlement then he can charge you per call
Yes, yes it is. The only ones who don’t want you to get a lawyer are the trolls doing the extorting. It is unlikely that it will ever get to court, they don’t want it in front of a judge because the case is pretty weak and the court will most likely give a first time “offender” the lowest fine and an admonishment not to do it again. In fact the first step should have been a warning as mentioned by TSI.
Anyone who has been given a head’s up by TSI needs to start looking for a lawyer right now, this would be a good place to start:
http://www.lsuc.on.ca/faq.aspx?id=2147486372
So if the judge does had over the IP addresses (a very likely scenario, I would be shocked if they didn’t) the letters will come quickly and you want to respond just as quickly. If they see that there is no low-hanging fruit, that every single person they’re trying to squeeze money out of (and don’t fool yourself, this is exactly what it’s all about) is set to fight them they will back off. The caps being so low going to court simply won’t be profitable.
This extortion tactic is so ridiculous and the court should not entertain for one second a motion to release anyone’s info! What grounds apart from someone’s IP can they accuse someone of downloading their pathetic B rated films is the real question. Oh wait I forgot they want to scare people into settling, my bad.
http://securitywatch.pcmag.com/none/297475-ip-address-not-a-person-judge-says-in-copyright-lawsuit
Do NOT Settle if you receive one of these scare tactic letters! Go to court!
I can’t wait until TekSavvy expands and grows bigger than Rogers and Bell. A truly wonderful, in tune company, that deserves so much more of what the bigger providers have. Thanks for caring and keeping us updated. Keep up the great work.
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Regarding your statement “yes, all notices have been sent for those identified. there’s no plan to send any further notices for those not yet identified as they are not identified…”
Would be really nice of you to post number of notices sent, and numbers of “remaining to be identified” so as to alleviate a little stress that people may have. Great job on everything, keep up the good work!
I don’t get it guys, sorry. How is it that Teksavvy has linked my computer(s) IP to this statement of claim, and subsequently any perceived act of piracy involving such-and-such [movie] on this date/time? I got an email from Teksavvy, stating this to be the case. My first question is… Where is this evidence supporting this blurb in the email I received from you, Teksavvy? I’m sure any legal team worth their salt will request this first. Will it be forthcoming to these identified clients?
With respect, while I concur with the open communication from your company, I completely resent this lack of evidence against me/my account, Marc. So now I’m wondering, how will Teksavvy position themselves in the face of their clients, if ‘ordered’ to relinquish personal information of us, who should never have been named in this claim in the first place? Doesn’t much sound like we are being treated as innocent until proven guilty, when Teksavvy washes their hands telling us all to ‘lawyer up’? This is bogus. All of it. I’m ticked!
Pingback: – Voltage Pictures Thinks Canada’s New Copyright Law Opens The Door For More Trolling
when reading the ip case files, teksavvy received the motion that they would be served, but did not know who and when back in november, why would teksavvy wait so long to raise this to its customer, would transparency not be identifying this earlier, then a day after receiving the list.
Hi Dave,
We only received a clean copy of the list of IPs last Monday. It took us a week to associate the IPs and we gave notice on Monday after working through the weekend. We went as fast as we possibly could…
Marc
Where I can check if my IP is on the list?
How To “Fight Copyright Trolls”
https://www.dropbox.com/s/bc8nr49vq0ukf9a/Fight%20Copyright%20Trolls.pdf
Everyone should download and read this document. It contains excellent information on how to deal with your situation in the event you receive a threat of a lawsuit, and a settlement letter.
The document originated in the UK, so some of the terminology is UK based, however the slippery tactics used and the defence strategies would be the same for any country.
An excellent read
To all the users of this forum, please repost this information everywhere you can think of for the benefit of others that might become caught up in these slime ball schemes.
Well this is very interesting indeed. I am signed up but not yet a customer (I am active as of Dec 20th). Let me echo what many have stated here about Teksavvy leading the way in customer service / support and communication. I have many, many co-workers and friends that are already customers, with so many good things to say, and I am so looking forward to Dec 20.
This sort of information sharing makes me feel that much better that I kicked Roger’s ass to the curb!
wow, a film company that could no longer make money by making movies and guess what business they decided to turn into? right, blackmail people~ way to go, in no days they will develop a gang and start collecting “protection fees” from their community, lmao
a few things that id like clarification
1. long shot, would anyone be able to get the database or list of ips from both voltage, and canipre. as a john doe? under the pipeda act.
as they have classified all ips to be a john/jane doe.
Micheal Geist also wrote on his about other lawsuits being barred after a first lawsuit is stettled against an individual.
is that similar to the double jeoperdy, or is it to protect against trolling that break up suits to try to maximize the monetary values.
meaning if you download 2 items, they try to settle with you 2x instead of 1.
also im pretty sure all members of the ip list where doing the same as canipre. they are all monitoring the same trackers,
http://www.cs.cornell.edu/courses/cs6464/2009sp/projects/yc336/
i even sound the source code
there was no download/upload
It seems teksavvy won’t be attending Mondays hearing? They aren’t obligated, what I wonder is the hurt locker names and info was released with the pipeda act in mind. Could the list of ips from canipre be obtained the same way under pipeda claimed under John Doe
Hi, everyone. sadly our family is one of the victims of voltage. i’m upset at the situation, yes. but i’m glad that we are with teksavvy. we appreciated the heads up letter and glad that you guys sent it to us as soon as you could. i would imagine that it was a lot of unnecessary work trying to link 2200 ip addresses to costumers. we also appreciate the fact that you didn’t just hand over our information. glad to be part of teksavvy.
the reason that i’m here is to say that they are not getting a penny from us. unless i find one on the floor. but even then i would throw it in their face if i had to give it to them. the only members in my household are my parents who don’t even know how to use a cell phone let alone a computer, my brother, and myself who both have never even heard of the movies voltage had part in. if they even so send us a letter threatening to take us to court, we will counter sue. that i guaranty. we will write them back a letter informing them of this and everyone else who gets the letter should probably do the same. they want to waist our time and money? well i would rather spend thousands wasting theirs then give in or settle. we have no doubt in our mind that we will come out victorious since we were wrongly accused, and i’m sure many of us were. hope they are reading this so they know what’s coming at them.
i have just read through this whole forum and the dslreports.com forum for copyright infringement lawsuit, and noticed marc participating in both. on the other forum it seems like a few members are jumping to conclusions and getting a bit upset at marc and teksavvy when the court day hasn’t even arrived yet. ppl seem to be blurting out all these tactics and ideas. probably not the best idea as mentioned in the other forum, as voltage layers could be reading these forums. given that the court day is still 4 days away. that gives them 4 days to find loop holes and prepare for all these great ideas mentioned in both forums.
well personally marc, i cant thank you enough for putting aside some time to connect with your costumers on these forums. something probably no other isp’s would do as mentioned earlier in the forum
so thank you again
If teksavvy were ordered by court on the 17th to give up the user information I hope they do the right thing to setup a joint defense againt Voltage…studio shouldn’t be making shitty movie and made money by suing ppl.
Well, if Voltage is doing this “in bulk”, instead of suing each and every individual separately, can’t we get together and use the services of one lawyer / firm to represent all of us affected, negotiating this way a much lower fee than if we went individually?
Would this be a “class-action” response to a suit?
Would this even be possible?
It seems to me that civil law allows people to recover costs associated with going to court and defending themselves against an accusation like the one Voltage is making. I’m not a lawyer, and perhaps one can chime in here, but wouldn’t it be a good strategy all those accused to set a court date and go ahead and defend themselves? If each and every one of the 2000 followed the defense strategy as laid out in the PDF linked to above, wouldn’t they all be deemed ‘not liable’ by the courts? And, from there – couldn’t each one of the 2000 counter-sue for costs such as lost income from work etc? At an average lost day of wages of say $100, that would be $200,000 that Voltage would owe the accused file sharers who defended themselves and won. Am I on to something? Is there a way to turn the tables on Voltage?
[Retry, as my first try didn't seem to go through authentication properly]
Considering that Voltage has already been found to be using techniques strongly criticized by the courts in the U.S., they may not be meeting the standard they themselves cite.
In paragraph 34 of BMG Canada inc. v. John Doe, Voltage quotes Sexton J as saying “It is sufficient that they show a bona fide claim, i.e., that they really do intend to bring an action for infringement of copyright based upon the information they obtain, and that there is no other improper purpose for seeking the identity of these persons”.
I read this as a requirement that they must both
1) intend to bring an action, and
2) there is no other improper purpose
In U.S cases brought by this and other firms, their practice has been to drop the proposed legal action, which fails test (1), and instead threaten the identified persons with legal action, which fails (2)
This sue-and-drop scheme would be a reasonable action only if Voltage explicitly did not desire the persons threatened to go to court. It would be unreasonable to sue someone, drop the suit and then recommence it if Voltage really wanted to appear before the court. It would be advantageous if their only intention was to identify persons and then threaten them with legal action, in hopes of obtaining an out-of-court settlement.
A recent U.S case addressing this sue-and-drop practice is MALIBU MEDIA, LLC,Plaintiff,v.JOHN DOES 1 through 10,Defendants No. 2:12-cv-3623-ODW(PJWx) in the Central District of California, cited at http://fightcopyrighttrolls.com/2012/07/04/judge-wright-is-so-right-copyright-trolling-is-essentially-an-extortion-scheme (emphasis added)
The Court is familiar with lawsuits like this one. AF Holdings LLC v. Does 1-1058, No. 1:12-cv-48(BAH) (D.D.C. filed January 11, 2012); Discount Video Center,Inc. v. Does 1-5041, No. C11-2694CW(PSG) (N.D. Cal. filed June 3, 2011); K-Beech,Inc. v. John Does 1-85, No. 3:11-cv-469-JAG (E.D. Va. filed July 21, 2011). These lawsuits run a common theme: plaintiff owns a copyright to a pornographic movie; plaintiff sues numerous John Does in a single action for using BitTorrent to pirate the movie; plaintiff subpoenas the ISPs to obtain the identities of these Does; if successful, plaintiff will send out demand letters to the Does; because of embarrassment, many Does will send back a nuisance-value check to the plaintiff. The cost to the plaintiff: a single filing fee, a bit of discovery, and stamps. The rewards: potentially hundreds of thousands of dollars. Rarely do these cases reach the merits. The federal courts are not cogs in a plaintiff’s copyright-enforcement business model. The Court will not idly watch what is essentially an extortion scheme, for a case that plaintiff has no intention of bringing to trial. By requiring Malibu to file separate lawsuits for each of the Doe Defendants, Malibu will have to expend additional resources to obtain a nuisance-value settlement — making this type of litigation less profitable. If Malibu desires to vindicate its copyright rights, it must do it the old-fashioned way and earn it.
Judge Otis D. Wright suggest that, in this case, the plaintiff
1) does not intend to bring an action, and
2) there is an improper purpose, that of using the courts to provide them with a list of person to threaten.
His remedy is to break up the suits and require them to proceed individually.
In 2011, Voltage, employing Washington-DC-based law firm Dunlap, Grubb & Weaver sued 24,583 persons on the grounds that they had downloaded the “Hurt Locker”, and it is a matter of record how many were dropped from the suit.
All of them.
In that case, Voltage also dropped people but continued to demand their contact details from their ISPs, suggesting that they were only interested in a list of people to threaten, not to sue.
This also occurred in Canada, where Voltage dropped its suit over the Hurt Locker (see
http://cas-ncr-nter03.cas-satj.gc.ca/IndexingQueries/infp_RE_info_e.php?court_no=T-1373-11)
It appears, therefor, that they may not meet the standard they propose they should be judged by: under the circumstances, a friend of the court or Tek Savvy should bring that to the attention of the court.
–dave
I’m one of the people who received a notice saying that my IP was in the list for the case. A friend of mine also received the same notice.
We’re both people in the tech scene and we use bit torrent, along with the majority of other online technologies. However, we didn’t download any of the movies listed in the motion, and for myself, I haven’t even heard of these films.
This leads me to suspect that either their data collection method is flawed, or the research method they used to associate my IP address with the files is flawed. Or perhaps there is something with the peer-to-peer network that confounds the relation between IP address and a file, which would undermine their methodology, which would undermine their case.
I have a few questions:
1. I’m wondering if there are other people who used bit torrent, but not for the files in question, who have IP addresses accused of downloading the files?
2. I’m also wondering about the credibility of the research method used to associate my IP to the file. From what I read, it looks like there was a possible manual process involved in the associate, with room for human error. It would be good to know the research limits, and if this is not a 100% reliable method, then how can a company demand access to private information on the basis of an imperfect method?
3. If Voltage obtains my personal information on the basis of a flawed research method, can this information be used against me in other regards or even be made public?
Hi,
The reason we insisted on a notice period was so that those affected or those interested in this situation could have a chance to intervene on Monday. If you feel that your information should not be released you could be represented anonymously if you choose to.
For the merit of what they are alleging, this is not a trial. So all they are doing at this stage is to show enough to pass a test in order to convince a court to order us to release the information. At this point no copyright infringement has been proven. We believe its important that people know when their private information may be released and that’s why we have taken this approach.
The best way to protect against these requests is to simply not engage in these activities. We don’t encourage illegal activities of any kind, nor am I insinuating that you have now either as I don’t know one way or another why you might have appeared on their list. What people do online though is not for us to scrutinize, we don’t monitor or collect data or anything of the sort. All ISPs are subject to these kinds of requests and this is not the first request of its kind. Other ISPs have had similar requests in the past and there will surely be more in the future.
All of that being said though, it’s important you read exactly what they are alleging. My understanding is that they are alleging that at an IP associated with your account, their work was made available somehow. Whether anybody downloaded it or whether you downloaded it is not part of their claim to my understanding. Again though, we are not and will not be commenting on any of the merits of what they are alleging. Those who do, should take advantage of the notice period and find a way to make to make their case on Monday. Should the motion pass and we were to be forced to give up the information, you would then have to deal with Voltage directly. What they choose to do with the information is up to them. Again though, all they would have at that point would be your information, not a judgment that you have done anything wrong. To do that they would need to take you to court where you would have the opportunity to plead your case.. As is the case in all court hearings.
You should also know that we have looked into all angles to determine what our position should be in this situation and after spending a significant amount if time and soliciting a considerable amount of advice from numerous respected sources, we found that we simply could not comment on the merits of the case. Our place is to ensure that we provide adequate notice and also to make known to others that these requests have occurred and that the best way to make sure to avoid being involved is to simply not engage in such activities. If somehow you end up involved and you feel it not right, the place to voice your concern is the hearing on Monday. If you intend to appear, please let us know also.
I will be there on Monday to ensure your privacy is taken seriously however we will not be making a case against the merit of what they are alleging. That’s for you and others to do if you wish to. Our role has been to provide notice and to take every step to alert and to some degree educate people that the laws have now changed and apparently so too have the technologies used to collect evidence in these cases. If they were not enforcing these laws in the past, they are certainly doing so now, whether the laws are right or not is not for us to judge.
I hope that helps you.
Regards,
Marc
Hi Marc.
Thanks a lot for this comprehensive response. I probably can’t make it on Monday, but if you post the time/place, I’ll see if it’s possible. I’d like to ask you to raise some issues on behalf of myself.
Here are the issues:
1. My concern is that the research method they used to associate my IP to their materials is flawed. Two of us used bit torrent, but did not download the movies in question. In fact, apart from the hurt locker, I’ve never even heard of these films. This leads me to suspect that they have included IP addresses that are not associated with their content, but which were on bit torrent. Has Teksavvy employed a credible expert witnesses to verify if Teksavvy is being asked to give up their customers’ data on the basis of research that is 100% valid, flawed, or less than perfect? We the accused need to know if their research method is 100% irrefutable. We need to know the potential for error in their methods.
2. If the correlation between an IP address and the copy written content is not 100% reliable, would Canadian’s be at risk of having their privacy invaded on the basis of imperfect monitoring? To put this another way, if their monitoring method is only 95% accurate (given numerous unknowns, spoofing and other confounding factors), would 5% of Canadians now be at risk of having their privacy rights abused on the basis of monitoring and research error?
3. Voltage is not a credible actor who can be trusted with confidential public information. If they obtain private information on the basis of flawed research, they may abuse this information. What limits would be placed on their use of this information, and how can they further disclose this information?
4. If there is any doubt about the reliability on the correlation between an IP address and the content in question, then we should have an opportunity to anonymously defend ourselves before Teksavvy is able to handover of our confidential information. I do not authorize Teksavvy to release my personal information unless I am personally able to defend against the claims. I have not received evidence and I believe that each of the accused IP address holder has the right to all information pertaining to their particular. I want to see all their data and understand the method they employed to associate my IP to their content.
The real threat here is not the fine; it’s the invasion of privacy and potential misuse by Voltage. However, if we were to defend ourselves openly, then Voltage would have successfully invaded our privacy, as they would be able to associate our identity and IP, which is what they want. Thus, I believe there would be a need for an anonymous defence, mediated through a trusted impartial third party, where the accused are actually presented with the evidence against them. On the basis of this, the accused could actually see the specific evidence that is being used to justify the claim. This important step is being skipped by Voltage, and I do not authorize Teksavvy to handover my personal information without allowing me this right. As the handover of confidential information is worse than a fine for some, our first defence should not be over money, but rather, our right to challenge Voltage’s case against our IP address.
I believe that our legal defence must take place over two stages. First, to provide a legal mechanism for us to individually and anonymously defend ourselves against Voltage’s attempt to obtain our personal information. Then if Voltage presents a very strong case, second, to either settle or defend ourselves against their financial claims.
However, Voltage is trying to skip a step, by wholesale obtaining personal information with shoddy research. I suspect that they’re recklessly throwing in IP addresses that were in the vicinity of the crime, but not actually in the house where the crime took place. I need to see this evidence before deciding if I will fight it or not. I don’t know what evidence they have, yet if the courts tell Teksavvy to reveal my personal to Voltage, an ethically questionable company, I will be victimized (having confidential information handed to an untrustworthy party) on the basis of potentially flawed research, with no opportunity to defend myself. I know they have no claim against me, but I’m not even given the opportunity to defend my privacy. Once they obtain my confidential information, they can abuse that information, and before this happens, I must be allowed to defend myself. As an individual, I have not seen the case against my particular IP address, and I have not been given a space to intervene as an individual or as part of a class response. If they actually had to deal with each IP address holder, this would place them under pressure to present defendable research.
I hope you can represent my views. Thanks for your personal attention. You did well on CBC and you’re winning good respect for your company by grabbing the bull by the horns.
The Accused
Marc, Hearing this is What makes Teksavvy the best provider! Keep up the great work!
As to question 3, the U.S. law firm Voltage employed has explicitly used the information they gained through the suit. It was used to engage in what a (also U.S.) judge described as “extortion” in his ruling against them.
Someone Ask Micheal Geist, to call in sick on monday and show up as an expert witness. :p he can be a john doe. we wont tell. but like marc said flood the court if you can
The Mp, who said there would be no mass suits because of the new bill should show up, maybe someone can tweet and request his appearance as his civil duty.
TekSavvy and their clients have an ally:
CIPPIC today filed a letter with the Federal Court asking the Court to delay hearing a motion, brought by Voltage Pictures, to compel Internet Service Provider Teksavvy Solutions to disclose the identities of Teksavvy subscribers alleged to have downloaded movies the copyright to which Voltage owns. The motion, the supporting evidence to which was only filed on Tuesday, December 11, is scheduled to be heard only 6 days later, on December 17. CIPPIC argues that this is insufficient time for defendants to learn of the motion, retain, be advised by and instruct legal counsel, and insufficient time for CIPPIC to prepare and file an application to intervene in the motion.
http://www.cippic.ca/en/about-us#location
read this on the other forum.
again thank you marc for opening these forums to voice our ideas and concerns that has led to cippic stepping in. also not to mention not handing over our information unless by court order giving users time for exactly this to happen
That’s awesome total respect to CIPPC. Even if they pass on the letter, they atleast did more then anyone else, stand up and brought a true insight to the case and light on the trolls and what they do. hope the judge does the right thing and not grant an extention, but denies personal info.
I slightly disagree, I want the judge to hand over the contact info and I want them to send their letters and then I want EVERYONE to have lawyers send them letters saying “See you in court.” I know it’s going to be a pain in the ass but the only way to deal with these trolls is to fight back and have a judge in Canada join the ones in the Uk and the US and call it out officially as extortion.
Voltage is right to want to protect their copyright but they’re clearly wrong in how they are going about doing it. It”s wrong because a) it won’t work b) they’ll be taking down the innocent along with the guilty c) well don’t really need a c) a) and b) are more than enough.
Voltage has been ripped a new one from the US, so now they are trying the same crap in Canada. They are toothless bloodsuckers that will never follow though with anything. Any idea how many people they would have to sue individually and the cost? My answer to them is…”Did I download that movie in Blu-ray?” “Sure, but only because I already own it and my disc was shot”. As far as I know if you already own the movie and you have a damaged disc, you can re obtain it, just like going back to Walmart and exchanging it for a new copy, you just cant get a refund once it is opened, but you can get a replacement. Voltage would never get a court order as how are they to prove with out a doubt that you do not already own the movie you just downloaded?? Now uploading is a different situation as no one has the right to re-distribute copyright material without the consent of the owner. I own a ISP and have been sent many e-mail letters from different trolls, and my response is always the same. Give me a court document that a has a currently sitting judges seal from the Province of Ontario with details of the customer name, time and date and proof of claim then we will talk. Until then your request for me to cut a paying customers internet connection off because of your wild witch hut baseless accusations will be filed under C (Crap) and placed in the bin marked G (garbage)
I got a bunch of emails about copyright updates and about missed communication from Teksavvy. I did not get a letter saying my IP was on the list. I checked “My World” as one of the emails mentioned and found nothing on there.
Should I be worried or am I in the clear? Kinda confused right now
sounds like you’re good. no need to worry. best way to prevent any of this is to make sure you dont engage in those alleged activities.
I’m not a Teksavvy customer but I found it curious that they’re doing this now, just when many people are about to renew ISP subscriptions. It made me think that the “Big Boys” (ie Bell, Rogers et al) might be the ones behind all this, getting some slimey US Nobody to play the bad guy.
Why ? Because Teksavvy is probably a big threat to their business. More and more of their customers are finally catching on to how badly they’re getting shafted and jumping ship. Who do they go to ? Probably Teksavvy. I know that to be the case for many of my neighbours.
Even if the US firm doesn’t have a chance in hell of winning in any lawsuits, as far as the Big Boys are concerned, the bogus lawsuits will have accomplished what they intended — to frighten Teksavvy clients and potential clients and possibly even, as that slimeball “Mr. Wonderful” on the Dragon’s Den suggested, cause the demise of Teksavvy.
I think that Teksavvy customers should view this thing as their fight rather than Teksavvy’s and you should pool your resources to get a team of really good lawyers to smush these slimeballs .
sad to say that the other forum has gone out of control with users targeting marc. something that i dont understand since its voltage they should be taking their anger out on. why make marc regret what he did on not handing over our information which he probably should have from how the other forum is going. in any case i greatly appreciate in, and im sure many others do more then the ones that don’t so i hope you dont regret what you have done for your costumers. hope you don’t think everone doesn’t appreciate what you have done. but i have a question marc.
im one of the ppl that got the email. if i was to show up at the court on the 17th, are teksavvy costumers allowed to take part and bring up the flaws and issues mentioned in these forums?
wonder who will show up tommorow, i hope “honorable” paradis, and the privcom will show up, maybe paradis will remind the judge what the studio’s agreed too. and the privcom can stair at any canipre employee…… beef up the defence and quash anything going forward. dont approve the release of info and make a statement the courts will not hear a case in these types
Today brought a reprieve of sorts, but also some angst in our household. Some of Teksavvy’s emails have been deleted, and I don’t know if our address received the original notice of accusation. It looks like it won’t be resent. I saw the email about the update and registered at My World, but I don’t see any notice or ‘list’ to check for my contact info. Is the list of accused addresses posted at My World, or a link?
Hello,
I apologize for the confusion, and delayed reply here. The list is not available to view. After logging into the my world portal, you will see an alert in red at the top of the page if you have been notified that your IP was on the list.
Thank you,
Keith
Thank you for letting everyone know about the situation. I hope everything goes well. Happy holidays and thank everyone for giving us the perfect Internet/phone provider
I really liked this article/book on how to react when you are targeted
http://www.scribd.com/doc/115443516/The-Speculative-Invoicing-Handbook-Second-Edition
I am very disappointed in Teksavvy and how they will not be opposing the motion by Voltage. This is not only a accused infringement issue but a privacy issue that Teksavvy should be protecting. How can Teksavvy claim to be protecting my private information when they won’t even stand up for me. Needless to say i’ll be cancelling my internet with them asap… Shame on you Teksavvy… and possibly see you in court.
From what iv read, teksavvy did stand up for it customers.
http://www.davidellis.ca/watching-voltage-and-teksavvy-duke-it-out-in-federal-court/
They only went to delay the motion but will not be opposing the motion… I would expected TSI to oppose the motion like how other ISPs have.
All those who recieved the letters better lawyer up or pay up… I have little faith that our privacy will be protected..
http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20121219/11165221440/if-teksavvy-wont-oppose-copyright-trolls-who-want-customer-info-who-will.shtml#comments
http://excesscopyright.blogspot.ca/2012/12/high-voltage-and-high-stakes-voltage.html
“Although Teksavvy has indicated that it “will not provide personal information to a 3rd party when copyright infringement is alleged unless ordered to do so by a court”, it has, however, decided in the end not to oppose the motion seeking such an order. It has decided not to cross-examine on Voltage’s affidavit material and not to file any written material.”
Better get our story straight and understand why EVERYONE is pissed off at MARC…
Link to article you just posted was published on the 16th, court date was on 17th. Read what happened on court date and not what was said was going to happen. Will not argue with you. No one needs to get any fact straight. Read and keep up with what’s happening.
Tek Savvy has to walk a fine line between being a “common carrier” like the phone company and an advocate for their customers. Common carriers have to be hands-off, lest they become legally responsible for what their customers say and do.
It took years of litigation for newspapers to avoid being personally liable for the letters to the editor which they published: the entire ISP industry isn’t big enough to fight such a long war, so as a common carrier is the only way a small ISP can continue to be in the business.
–dave
http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20121219/11165221440/if-teksavvy-wont-oppose-copyright-trolls-who-want-customer-info-who-will.shtml#comments
“Despite Teksavvy’s openness concerning this issue, questions are still bound to arise why Teksavvy is not actually opposing this disclosure motion in 2012, as Shaw and Telus actively and successfully did in 2004, with Bell and Rogers taking a similar if less vigorous position. In this regard, it is interesting to compare Voltage’s material with the BMG et al material filed in 2004 that was rejected by the Federal Court and Federal Court of Appeal at that time as inadequate in a very comparable situation, as a result of which we now have clear and binding “
See also http://www.davidellis.ca/watching-voltage-and-teksavvy-duke-it-out-in-federal-court/
where Mr Ellis writes “Legal counsel must have told TSI that, since it’s not liable and not a defendant, the company should not intervene by opposing the Voltage motion, so as not to jeopardize its neutral carrier status (which is what frees them of any joint liability for the alleged infringements)”
Notwithstanding that risk, he writes: “Nicholas McHaffie of Stikeman Elliott – surprised the room by stating they could not continue to take their original position as a neutral party and let the motion go unopposed. The rationale for this dramatic change of heart lay in what McHaffie saw as a serious compromise of the due process owed the 2,000-odd people Voltage intends to go after.”
–dave
@Say It – Are you in denial? Do you think TSI is going to oppose the motion?
@Dave
“McHaffie made it very clear the only grounds for opposing the motion was trying to ensure potential defendants got adequate time to be notified.”
So what are you trying to get at? At the end of the day they are only there to delay in handing over the private information of the accused. So like I said before, better prepare to lawyer up or pay up…
I’m trying to point out that Tek Savvy is at risk. You’re free to disbelieve me, but do look at the jurisprudence around letters to the editors before you suggest they should be defending you against Voltage.
What they should be doing is protecting my privacy… Like any other good service providers who has done so against this type of extortion tactics instead of rolling over… Know if you think this is too much, David, I suggest you play in traffic.
@Brandon
read please
http://www.davidellis.ca/teksavvy-customers-win-big-in-federal-court-today/
Have you ever thought about adding a little bit more
than just your articles? I mean, what you say is important and all.
However think about if you added some great pictures
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blog could definitely be one of the best in its field.
Terrific blog!
Hello,
We’re glad you appreciate the content and would like to thank you for your suggestions. We are definitely taking this into consideration.
Thank you,
Keith
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